Rahaf Farawi: Hi, I'm Rahaf Farawi co-host of Pull Quotes[1], the podcast where we take you behind the scenes of Canada's top long form stories[2]. And this week, I'm joined by a special guest. Annika Forman: Hi, I'm Annika Forman, the guest producer of Pull Quotes[3]. Rahaf: So Annika, you spoke to our guest this week. Could you tell us a little bit about them? Annika: Yes. So I spoke with Adam Feibel[4]. He is a music journalist[5], and he has been published in many outlets, including Bandcamp[6], Vice[7], the Toronto Star[8] and Post Media[9]. Rahaf: Nice. Okay, so why did you want to talk to him? Annika: So I'm a Billy Talent fan and he recently published a piece in Exclaim[10] about them called "Billy Talent Are More Relevant Than Ever"[11] where he interviewed the band and talked to them about their new album Crisis of Faith and their evolution over the years[12]. I also asked him how he started writing music features[13] and what some of his favourite music is[14]. Rahaf: Okay, great. Let's play the interview. Annika: Let's do it. Annika: Thank you for taking the time to do this interview. I really appreciate it. Adam Feibel: Yeah no problem. Annika: And I wanted to say that your writing is good. And I get drawn in and want to keep reading. So to begin, what was your path to music feature writing? Adam 1:21 it's something that I've been doing really, since I decided that I wanted to start writing that I wanted to go into journalism, that's the part that I liked about writing the most, I was always been into music and the arts. I always, and I was always into writing. And as soon as I kind of put those two things together, I decided that that's something that I wanted to do. So when I went to journalism school, a lot of my writing was focused on that. A lot of it wasn't. But I think it was obvious to my teachers and everything that that was something that I was interested in, that was something that they helped cultivate. And I you know, throughout my different jobs that I've had, I've been involved in the music side and the art side of journalism, to varying amounts. But I've always just freelanced. And most if not all, of the freelance writing I've done for various publications has been music writing. And over the years, I've just gotten more more practice of it gotten more and more work of it. And, and now, here where I am today, I'm not a major name or anything, but it's something where I do it regularly. And I'm involved in music in my day job as well. And then on the side, I do music writing. And I get to be on the cover of Exclaim once in a while, and it's great. Unknown Speaker 2:29 So you're actually both writing and making music. That leads me to my next question, actually which is, I know you're currently in a band and work at jazz, FM 91. Are you more interested in playing music versus writing about it? Unknown Speaker 2:45 Both really. I mean, I guess I've just never had all my eggs in one basket, I have been involved in music, and however I can. I've been in bands playing in bands since I was, I think 12 or 13 years old. So that's 17, 18 years, I've been various bands off and on my quote unquote, current band never really broke up or anything, but things had kind of slowed down, and then the pandemic came. So we haven't really done anything for the last two or three years. So I'm always working on something, whether I'm currently playing on the stage with a group of people or whether I'm just at home, writing songs, making music, either just for fun, or for some future project. And then in the meantime, I decided that I wanted to pursue writing as a career. And I was like, You know what I'm going to write about music or and other things, but if I can write about music full time and make that my career, then I'm going to do that. And it's not quite my career. I mean, what I do as the digital manager of a radio station and all that that entails, you know, things like website management, social media, all sorts of stuff and writing is pretty big component of that as well so everything I’v done since I graduated high school and had the world in front of me and had to decided what I wanted to do had music in some capacity Annika: You do play music but then you also decided to make music your career and focus on music Unknown Speaker 4:14 Yeah, that's been a little tricky at times, not so much, because I've been in a big enough band to, you know, create great conflicts of interest or whatever. But, you know, there were times when I was writing for exclaim around 2015. And my band was also going on tour with a couple bands that I probably would have wanted to write about for exclaim and I didn't do that because I was like, that's obviously a conflict of interest there. I don't want to be seen to be self promoting or that I'm just writing about my buddies, so I would avoid that. And I've avoided writing about people who are too close to me. So there's a little bit of that and if I were more of a professional musician or a professional musician at all, I would you know, that would become more an issue and I might have to choose one or the other haven't had to do that yet. Although I guess you know, if one really took off, then that would be a good thing. not do the other and be happy with it because I've been able to make one of those things my full time focus and my full career, Unknown Speaker 5:11 how do you choose what bands you're going to review? Unknown Speaker 5:15 That's a good question. I mean, they're chosen by my editors ultimately. Because, you know, there's, there's all sorts of music that just comes up stuff that comes into my inbox that people want to pitch to me, you know, I'm getting multiple emails a day with, you know, check out this new single, check out this new music video, check out this new album and Some of it's in my wheelhouse, some of it's not really and, you know, so and then some of it really peaks my interest. And you know, that stuff, I'm like, okay, I'd be interested in writing about this other things, you know, they're not pitch to me at all, most of it is just music that I hear you, whether it's through, you know, someone recommending it through social media, or, you know, it's like the Apple Music algorithm or whatever, or, you know, there's all sorts of places that you hear about unique music. And, you know, now that I also have a pretty wide network of like minded people who are into the same type of music as I am, you hear more and more recommendations just easily and organically through the people that you know. And so from those, it's basically a matter of okay with the publication that I'm pitching to be into this to begin with. So sometimes it's just some self selection where, okay, I don't think they'd be into this, this is more of a me thing. I'll champion this through my Twitter or whatever. But I don't think that necessarily pay me to write about this. Some of them. It's like, okay, I think they would be into this, and I pitch it. And if they're into it, then there we go. Unknown Speaker 6:43 What is the reason that you would interview this band - is it because you like your music? Unknown Speaker 6:45 Oh, I see. Yeah. I mean, either I like their music, or I think they're interesting. Usually, both, you know, thinking that the music is good. And and that is worth writing about and hearing more about and learning from the artist, what went into it, and what inspired it, and the people who actually made the music, you know, obviously, the music has to be good and has to be interesting. Everyone will say that's subjective. But you know, the longer you do this, the more you kind of have, I guess, a bit of a sense of taste a critical ear, in terms of what music you think will resonate with people, sometimes there's something that I think I'll really like, and I'm like, I don't, I think this is kind of just a me thing, I don't know, if everyone would necessarily be as into this as I would, you know, some things you are more likely to recommend to your friends than others. And some people have a really interesting story that they're telling. And that's a story that you'd like to help tell. And those are the kinds of things where, where I would say, Okay, this, let's write about this, let's get that message out there. Let's amplify this. Unknown Speaker 7:42 Right. And also, d'you want to write about bands that have a social conscience? Unknown Speaker 7:45 I do, not exclusively, it's not a prerequisite. But you know, I think that's something that's generally important, I think it's good to be a good person, if your music is about trying to either be a good person or to make the world around you better than that's all the better that resonates with me and I mean, as someone who grew up with punk music, that, you know, that message is really a big part of what punk is about, of, you know, just a genre that's steeped in, you know, socio political messages and kind of naturally attuned to that. And when that comes up, whether it's in punk music or not, that sparked my interest. It's not there's a lot of artists that have, you know, socio political songs or messages in their music. It's, it's not the only thing, obviously, that isn't like, oh, they said, a thing that I agree with, I like them now. But it's always a nice bonus, of course, Unknown Speaker 8:35 and is there other would you say things that you like to hear in the music that you, Unknown Speaker 8:42 I mean, I'm other than just the kind of musical genre, things that that hit those kind of soft spots in me that remind me of, you know, the formative years when you came up with music, the type of music that you listen to, and I think it's can't quote any studies here, but I've read that, you know, there's, scientifically there's a physiological reason that the music that you listen to between the ages of something like 12 and 18, when your brain is really forming that like really sticks with you and a lot of people that's just kind of calcifies their music tastes and they only listened to that or things that sound like that, for the rest of their life. [a]That's the way a lot of people are you know, that's what they're familiar with. That's what their brain has physiologically said this feels good when you hear this sound. I guess it's biology you know there's things that I don't only listen to the punk and emo and rock music that sounds exactly like the stuff that I listened to when I was 15. In fact, kind of the opposite that would be kind of boring if I just kept listening to the same band with different names 10, 20, 30 years later, but obviously there are you know, when I hear a band that's that's kind of new and interesting, but also has that little hits that soft spot that reminds me of, you know, the music that I love and that I have loved for most of my life. It really hits something but beyond that, you know, you asked if there's anything else that, you know, really makes me interested in writing about. It's I like being able to tell a story, you know, some music is really good. And all I can say about it sometimes is that it's really good. And I can describe it. And I can say why I think it's really good. But it's even better I love when there's a story to tell as well, not just something interesting, but you know, an actual story. And I'm trying to come up with an example. And of course, examples never come into your head when you need them. And they'll come into my head after but the cover story that I wrote, I think in 2016, about PUP, the Toronto punk band that I think many people are familiar with, if you're if you're into punk or rock music, and if you're not, that's okay. I've mentioned them before, sometimes you get into your, your scenes, and you're like, oh, yeah, everyone knows PUP, because everyone you know, knows, PUP and, then you talk to someone who's not into the music that you're into at all. And you're like, oh, you know, PUP, and they're like, who?, and it kind of reminds you that the world is actually much bigger than you are. So anyway, I wrote a cover story about PUP, the Toronto punk band, and of that album was that it almost couldn't be made. Because Stefan, the singer was told by his doctor that he couldn't sing anymore, because he had ruined his voice singing improperly. And if you listen to the band, you'd probably know what that means right away, because his voice is very unique. It's kind of shouty and shrill. And he was just, you know, shouting at the top of his lungs for the other part of that story was that they had toured notoriously, like 200 days out of the year 250 shows in a year. So you know, every night just screaming at the top of his lungs and ruined his voice. And that was, you know, so it was almost the end of the band, and it wasn't. And so that was, you know, I talked to them. And I got into detail with that story and what that meant and the kind of decisions they had to face. And like, do we give up the band now stop doing that do we replace them? Or do we just try to recover and come back and do this again, even though it risks, you know, just losing your voice permanently. And you know, they have an album that's not entirely about that, but definitely shaped by that. And that was an interesting story to be able to tell. And it actually makes it easier to write a 2000 word feature, when you have when you have, you know, a narrative that's guiding you along. I've had to write long form pieces before that I don't really know what the story is. It's just like, here's, here's, here's an interesting person. And it's more challenging. Unknown Speaker 12:19 You're the one to say, I want to write this feature, it's sometimes Exclaim that says you have to do it? Unknown Speaker 12:25 I mean, not, not that I have to, Unknown Speaker 12:29 like, Would you like like, sorry, would you like to profile Unknown Speaker 12:31 this artist? I'm like, Yeah, I like them. And they're interesting. And then, you know, obviously, you do your research, you know, everything there is to know about this person, you interview them, and it goes well, or doesn't. And you, you have tons of content. But sometimes the story is just it's just there. And sometimes it's harder to find, you know, sometimes you know what the story is what the narrative is, and that makes it easy. And then you write that story, and you write it in your way. And I guess, you know, there's also sometimes drawbacks to it when it's really obvious what the story is, because you you look at like Rolling Stone, and Stereo Gum, wherever is writing about music, and they're all writing the same story, because that is this the story of this artist at this time. And so you, there's not as much that’s differentiating you. So sometimes, maybe you’d decide, You know what, I'm not going to write that story, I'm going to do take some other angles, sometimes your angle changes, even from you know, you're doing your research and you think you have a certain angle or certain story that you're going to tell and then you do the interview, and it goes in a different direction that's much more interesting, or that has much stronger content for you to use. And you go in that direction. Unknown Speaker 13:36 How did you get access to Billy talent? Unknown Speaker 13:38 That was that actually goes back a while because I had pitched I had tweeted about Billy Talent. Sometimes, if you're a music writer, just tweet about what you like. And if you're lucky, you'll get money from it. So that's some advice, I guess, because I tweeted about like, you know, recently, Billy talent was not has not been like the coolest, hippest band, you know, they've been around for a while as as bands become as they get older, you know, you're not the the fresh cool hip band anymore, but people are still really into them. And people have been fans of theirs for a long time. And I tweeted, you know, I was actually just curious whether it was you know, whether my personal taste was similar to the consensus or whether it was just me, so I had tweeted something about you know, just a poll on Twitter, like what is your favorite Billy talent album? And it turns out that I was kind of close to consensus you know, a lot of people like their first two albums not a lot of people like their other albums as well but people consider their favourites to be you know, one and two, but it led to my editor who was also a big Billy Talent fan and I didn't know that the features editor Matt Bobkin, friend of mine, he messaged me and said, hey, you know, there's a lot of people talking about Billy talent on your, on your Twitter a lot. There's, there's not a lot of people talking about Billy talent these days. But you know, obviously there's a lot of people who are still really into them and who have been into them. Would you be interested in writing a piece about that? And I said, Sure. And I gave an idea. And I don't remember what the initial idea was. It may have been decent, but it wasn't quite there yet. And it only ended up taking shape about a year later, when it was the 15th anniversary of Billy talent II, their second album, which was released in 2006. And it was kind of a like, a critical reappraisal or like a mea culpa on behalf of all the, you know, doubters and haters from back in the day that you know, there was a lot of this was a band that as they got popular, they also had a lot of detractors and people saying that they were lame or whatever, whether it was in the punk circles, or like they're not punk enough for in like indie rock circles being like, they're not hip or cool enough or whatever, obviously not saying exactly those words. But so it was a it was a piece kind of just looking back 15 years later, and just saying, like, hey, this was really good. And it didn't quite get a fair shake. It was obviously very popular. But you know, critically speaking, they didn't deserve the hate that they got. So that was the premise of that. And then, you know, a year later, their new album comes out. And it's like, okay, let's, let's write a big feature about this new album, and about how long they've been a band and about how they've changed over that time, or maybe not changed, but grown is what I should say. And so it grew from that. And it was like, and, you know, Matt asked me, Do you want to write the feature the big feature on Billy talent we're thinking about? We're not sure yet, but we're thinking about putting it on the cover, you know, I said yes, obviously, I want to do that. Unknown Speaker 16:26 Like how you initially got access was through a Tweet that you had Unknown Speaker 16:29 Yeah, I mean, how I initially ended up writing about Billy Talent was I tweeted about it my editor saw it was like hey, let's work on a piece obviously access to the band to interviewing them got through I got through exclaim saying write, the write the big feature will set you up with their publicist who will set you up with the band as it normally works. But you know, we if you chase it way back, yeah, path to me writing the cover story about Billy talent for exclaim is me tweeting about Billy talent two years ago. Unknown Speaker 16:57 What about them made you want to write about them? Unknown Speaker 17:02 Um, they're, they're one of my first favorite bands. I was 12 when album came out in 2003. And I loved it. And I didn't really know what I was hearing, you know, because I hadn't been familiar familiarized yet with loud screamy punk sounding music. And, and, and I just loved it. And, you know, those were my bands as a young person. You know, Billy talent, Alexisonfire, Sum 41. These kind of, you know, loud, screamy punk bands that got really big in Canada on Much Music back in the early mid 2000s. So I was always really into them. And, you know, now it's been almost 20 years later. And you know, Billy Talent has put out six albums now. And I've liked some of them more than others. My favorites are those first two. But you know, but I've traced their career throughout this whole time. And it was good to, to write about this album and look at that growth and how this one stacks up next to the other Unknown Speaker 17:58 what do you see as the through line for their music? Unknown Speaker 18:01 musically, they have got kind of more, a little more mainstream rock as they went along. And now they're, you know that what was it what was really interesting in this album is that it's kind of all over the place where their last few albums were a lot more streamlined. I think, as they got, you know, as they got more popular. And as they found their sound, they, you know, they really got a hold on, okay, this is our sound, and we're doing it. This new album was like, you know, as I wrote in my feature, some songs sound like Black Flag, and some songs sound like Fleetwood Mac, which is really weird to say, and some songs kind of sound like journey, and other songs sound like Weezer. And, you know, it's this, this mix of different types of rock through the decades, you know, you can kind of point at stuff and say, kind of sound 70s or 80s, or 90s, or 2000s. And, you know, they're doing all sorts of different stuff that they haven't done before but It sounds like them, because they've been doing this for 20 years, and they've got such a unique, you know, Ben has such a unique voice. And Ian is an incredible, and incredibly unique guitar player. There's no one like him. And they have together as a band, they have this sound that sounds like Billy talent. So no matter what they do, they can write a song that kind of sounds like Fleetwood Mac, but it sounds you would never mistake it for anything else other than Billy talent, I thought that was really interesting. I think it speaks to the you know, the creative freedom that comes from being an artist for as long as they have that you can take risks, or do different things. And you've been a good band long enough that you have you can adventure out but still be at home. And I thought that was really interesting. And then also the through line of their music was that starting in around 2005 2006 they've just they've had a growing social consciousness that has only gotten it's only gotten stronger with time as opposed to being you know, young, angry kids and them just kind of toning it down as you get older and you have families and you're not angry as you were when you were a young kid. But But no, I mean they're not screaming about things as much as they used to but they are more are outspoken as the years go on, Unknown Speaker 20:02 did you find it easier to interview them again? Unknown Speaker 20:06 I didn't interview them for the first piece. Annika:Oh you didn't. Adam: No, no, it was just they actually brought it up, which was kind of neat. When I interviewed them for this piece, Ben said that he the singer, Ben said that he had read it and liked it. And then and then Ian chimed in and said, Oh, that was you. I didn't realize that was you? And I was like, Oh, awesome. They read my piece I didn't you know, you never know if the people you're writing about read your stuff. But I thought it was really cool. Not only that they had read it, but they had brought it up and said, Oh, you brought up an interesting point. I'm like, yes, yes, they liked it. They think I'm smart. Annika: How did you interview them? Was it over zoom? Or was it in person? Adam: It was over zoom. And I kind of got screwed over? As everything is yeah. And I kind of got screwed over that day. Because the night before my building manager warned people in my area of the building that there was going to be loud construction that morning. So they gave me like, you know, like 12,14 hours notice, I was like, Oh, my God, can you please not because I have a really important interview. I don't know if interview with Billy Talent for the cover of Exclaim means anything to you. I didn't say that. But so I ended up they ended up helping me out because they couldn't reschedule the construction. But they did put me in the fire office of the building in the lobby. So it was in the lobby in this freezing cold room with like 20 foot ceilings, surrounded by like, WHMIS safety precautions, and fire extinguishers and stuff. And it's where the firefighters come to do their fire tests or if you know if there is a fire in the building. That's where all the kind of fire resources are. So I was sitting there doing my interview. And I said at the beginning, I was like, Hey, guys, here's the deal. Here's why. If you're wondering why I'm in this weird looking room that doesn't look like a home or an office, this is why Annika: Was it hard trying to interview the whole band, Unknown Speaker 21:49 I interviewed two of them. So that's fine. And it was over zoom. And they and and so it's it's easy to know, who's who. I have interviewed bands as a whole before in person or over calls and it is challenging for sure. Especially when people have similar voices. And you want to take a quote and you don't hear, like who said that, because all you have is a recording. So that's challenging, and especially too because those interviews too just take longer because there's you know, more and sometimes that's good. And sometimes you just kind of circle, everyone's kind of saying the same thing over and over again. And so if you've got a group of four or five people, I don't usually recommend that sometimes sometimes that's good. You know, I don't, I don't want to go out there and say, like, hey, bands, choose one leader, and that can be the star and they can speak for all of you no, but it is challenging, it does have its challenges, and they're perfectly surmountable, but it is a little annoying. Unknown Speaker 22:43 For the piece, “Billy Talent Are More Relevant Than Ever”. How did you make creative decisions. For example, how do you decide like, I'm going to talk about the band's music for this amount and then their story for this amount? Unknown Speaker 22:55 Oh, okay. Yeah, the structure of the piece. I mean, that that's, you know, as I was saying before, sometimes your narrative changes halfway through. And that's kind of what happened to me. Well, that is what happened to me with this piece. Particularly, I was kind of I was actually sitting there working on it. And writing, I didn't start at the beginning with this one. I didn't, I didn't have my lead yet. And I don't even think I had my nut graph my you know, the thesis, or I think I think I had that I think that Yeah, I had a thesis in mind. But I was writing a different section that I had better grasp on so far. And then as I was going along, you know, something about it struck me and it was, you know, just that increasing social consciousness and how much we talked about that in the interview, and I sit there and I just kind of stepped back from my chair, and I looked at my partner who was like watching a movie or whatever, it was, like a Saturday night. And I was like, uhh I think I want to change the entire premise of my article halfway through writing it. And she said, Oh, okay, uh well, what is, you know, and we kind of talked it through. And the more I talked about it, the more I was like, Yeah, this is what I want to do. And the only reason that I'm really, of two minds about it is because it means that I would have to do a whole lot more work and rewriting things. But I ended up doing that I ended up doing the work. And I'm happy that I did it because it made the rest of the piece easier to write than it would have been otherwise. You know, I initially kind of my focus was on what I had mentioned about their their sound being so solidified at this point of 20 years of their career, that they can go out branching and all these different directions, and it still sounds like them. And that that comes with time that comes with putting in the hours putting in the years and cultivating a fan base that's trusting etc, etc. And that ended up being a part of the article. But it was that was kind of the main thesis and I didn't really have I don't think had enough. I don't think I had 2000 words on that premise. But I had, like 3000 words, and what ended up being the premise. So yeah, I did end up changing it halfway through and I'm glad I did Unknown Speaker 24:59 when you decide that you're going to how much kind of you have over the piece. And then or versus how much the editor has, Unknown Speaker 25:05 In this case, I just did it. We hadn't discussed, you know, my editors, and I hadn't discussed what the angle of the piece was gonna be. I think they have, we've worked together a lot. They had trust in me that, you know, whatever I thought was the, you know, the main premise, the main angle of the interview that I had with them was going to be good. And obviously, once I, once I submit the piece, you know, it goes through a few layers of edits, obviously, but no, there, there wasn't a discussion ahead of time, or when I was deciding to change my mind over what the direction of the piece was going to be. That that would be different in other situations, particularly if I'm working with an editor that I haven't worked with before, or that we haven't worked together for years already. So that, you know, that would be different, there would probably be more discussion. It's like this. Here's what we're looking to write about. Here's the angle we're hoping to take. And if I got through an interview and said, You know, I actually think this angle might be better thanI clear that with them, and or at least let them know and say, Hey, I'm thinking of changing the angle because I think this would be better. They, and then they say, Sure, or they say no, let's stick to the previous case. That hasn't come up. But that's what I would do in that situation. You know, just keep it you know, so everyone has their expectations. But there were really no expectations in this case. So I didn't have to update them on their expectations, Unknown Speaker 26:16 I guess just to end like, I wanted to ask, what band/genres do you like to listen to? Unknown Speaker 26:23 Yeah, I mean, I know it's a cliche to say like, I listen to everything, but I you know, not everything. No one listens to everything. But you know, at the end of the year, when I look at my favorite albums of the year, it would be pretty focused on rock and punk and those surrounding genres metal, you know, there's, I look at the list and there's usually a couple of hip hop albums, metal, I guess, is under the rock umbrella anyway, folk country. You know, that other stuff kind of in the indie sphere will be some pop, that I really like. And, you know, you just got all over the place jazz, especially in you know, working my day job for the last few years, I've gotten more and more into jazz. So you know, all over the place. I have my focus I have my specialty, especially in writing, you know, I can appreciate a country album or a few. But would I pitch a story about Willie Nelson? No, because I'm not you know, I'm I don't consider myself qualified at all to to write about Willie Nelson, at least without spending a ton a ton of time getting to know a career of like 50 or 60 years or however long he's been around, but a you know, in short, all over the place. but obviously , everyone's got their focus. Unknown Speaker 27:35 Okay. Yeah, that's just about all the questions. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Unknown Speaker 27:42 Yeah, no problem. It was fun. Unknown Speaker 27:43 And that's the end of the third episode of our season. Pull quotes is published by the Review of Journalism X University[15]. Our show hosts are Gabe Oatley[16] and Rahaf Farawi[17] with guest Podcast Producer me Annika Forman[18] and Andrew Oliphant[19]. Technical and audio support is provided by Angela Glover[20] and web support by Lindsay Hanna[21]. Our executive producer is Sonya Fatah[22] and the music is by Harrison Ammar[23]. Join us in about 10 days for the next episode. Transcribed by https://otter.ai ________________ [1] See https://www.instagram.com/p/CZSeyOJv3m4/?utm_medium=copy_link - slide two [2] See Ibid [3] See Ibid - slide five [4] See https://adamfeibel.com/ [5] See Ibid [6] See https://daily.bandcamp.com/lists/fifth-wave-emo-list [7] See https://www.vice.com/en/article/53v3md/heres-how-you-can-protect-your-hearing-at-shows-and-not-be-a-dumbass [8] See https://www.thestar.com/life/health_wellness/2014/09/30/man_turns_to_reddit_for_weightloss_support_and_motivation.html [9] See https://ottawacitizen.com/author/adam-feibel/ [10] See https://exclaim.ca/music/article/billy_talent_crisis_of_faith_interview [11] See Ibid [12] See Ibid [13] See https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yAOy33N681qTYQGCZQdMAka-B-GNzJX4/view?usp=sharing 1:09 [14] See https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yAOy33N681qTYQGCZQdMAka-B-GNzJX4/view?usp=sharing 26:00 [15] See https://reviewofjournalism.ca/category/pull-quotes-podcast/ [16] See https://www.instagram.com/p/CZSeyOJv3m4/ - slide four [17] See Ibid - slide two [18] See Ibid - slide five [19] See Ibid - slide three [20] See https://www.ryerson.ca/journalism/about/people/staff/angela-glover/ [21] See https://www.ryerson.ca/journalism/about/people/staff/lindsay-hanna/ [22] See https://reviewofjournalism.ca/pull-quotes-season-5-episode-2-nicholas-hune-brown-on-international-students-vivid-scenes-and-reporting-from-a-distance/ [23] See PremiumBeat_license_3299793_3960599_late-night-latte.pdf [a]maybe fact check