Transcript of Pull Quotes - Episode 6: Emma Gilchrist Rahaf Farawi Hello, I'm Rahaf Farawi, co-host of Pull Quotes. Gabe Oatley And I'm Gabe Oatley, the other half of Pull Quotes the podcast where we take you behind the scenes of Canada's top long form stories. Rahaf, hello. Who did you chat with this week? Rahaf Farawi Yeah, I spoke with Emma Gilchrist, who is a reporter and editor who focuses on environmental issues. And she's also the co-founder of The Narwhal. Gabe Oatley I love the Narwhal. I so appreciate the journalism they do. And I also really like their hats. I'm still trying to figure out how to get myself one of those hats. I don't know if you've seen those I have. I really like the hats. Maybe, maybe next year, I will get one. Okay, irrelevant. What was the piece that you spoke with Emma about? Rahaf Farawi Yeah, so the piece we chatted about isn't an environmental piece. It's actually called Genetic Mapping. And it was published in Maisonneuve last April. So it's a personal long form piece about Emma's journey to figuring out who her biological father is. And in the piece, she touches on her adoption story, and she just talks about how significant all her parents are, but how finding this out was important to her. And overall, it's also about the bigger phenomenon of DNA testing. Gabe Oatley Yeah, I really liked this piece. I mean, like, for one, I think it's just so important that we hear about the experiences of folks who have been adopted. But also like, for me personally, as a queer person, the story offered so much helpful insight. Like, I've got lots of budds who are thinking about having kids and like how to actually make that thing happen, like thinking through whether to go with an anonymous sperm donor or a known donor or adopt, or fostering. And like, with all those questions, this story felt really significant in terms of just like hearing about what drove Emma to try and find her biological father. And like, why that was so important to her. Rahaf Farawi Yeah, for sure. And that was actually one of the things that came up during our interview, just how many people like reached out to Emma, to let her know how they related to the piece, and just how meaningful it was that she shared her story. She also shared how she wrote this whole piece in a week from a cabin in the woods. Gabe Oatley Oh my god, whoa! That's so, that's so impressive. This is such a great story, especially for being written in a week, in a cabin in the woods. Cool. Well, I'm really looking forward to hearing this chat. Rahaf Farawi Yeah, let's play it. Hi, Emma. Emma Gilchrist Hi. Rahaf Farawi Thanks for joining me today. It's really great to have you on the podcast. So we're here to talk about your piece Genetic Mapping, which is a deeply personal story. And it also made me cry. So to start off, could you tell us a little bit about the piece for those who have yet to read it? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, for sure. So the story is about how I did a DNA test, one of these online DNA tests, and basically discovered that the person who I thought to be my biological father wasn't my biological father. And that is a kind of common experience these days, with the rise of DNA testing. There's so many people doing them. And estimates are that somewhere in the range of 4% of paternity tends to be misattributed. And I was one of those people. So I got what is called in that DNA community and a not parent expected result, or an NPE. And it kind of threw my whole world into flux. And so the story is about like the various pieces of that from the person who I thought to be my biological father, to the new biological father, conversations with my biological mother, and then it also brings in the voices of experts to speak to how this is a growing sociological phenomenon and how it how it impacts people. Rahaf Farawi So at what point did you decide to write this piece? Was this something that you were kind of always curious about exploring in sort of a long form feature? Or was it after you got the news about your biological father? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, so I'm adopted as well. And so I had been working on a story about that for quite a while, but it had kind of hit a standstill. I wasn't sure how to package it. I wasn't really sure what the hook was. And then as soon as I got this DNA results, I thought, okay, I'm probably gonna want to write about this someday. So I tried to keep pretty good notes. And it was just such a surreal experience. And it was so dramatic. And I ended up telling this story so many times to friends and colleagues and stuff. So yeah, I pretty early on knew that I like would hope to write about it someday. I didn't expect to write about it like so soon, though. So I found my new biological father in March. And by December, I had the assignment to write about it. So you know, about like, six months later, basically, I had started writing it, and then it came out. It came out about a year after the event happened. Rahaf Farawi I mean, obviously, the story is super personal. So I'm curious what inspired you to want to share that story so publicly? Emma Gilchrist Yeah. I mean, I think for a long time, I had been thinking about just the whole concept of the like the right to know where you come from, which is a big issue for adoptees. And like, when I came of age, like when I turned 18, in Alberta, I didn't have a right to my own original birth certificate, or any of the information on who my biological parents had been. And so that had been like a long simmering issue in my mind. And then I'd also read a lot about people who are donor conceived, and Canada allows like anonymous sperm donation, so lots of people who are conceived that way, don't know who their biological parents are. And then in my story, as well, like, there was this shifting, kind of like ethnic or racial identity happening. And, that just felt like a really important part of the conversation, too. I think sometimes the conversations that we have about identity, like it assumes that everybody gets to know their identity. And that's actually a privilege that quite a lot of people don't have, you know, for a variety of reasons. So, I like to have the story touched on all of those aspects and kind of it just like tosses them all up in the air. And it's like, the whole concept of anonymous, sperm donation or closed adoption basically doesn't exist anymore. Because with these DNA tests, you can get matched with, you know, relatives all over the world. And I just think it's a really important conversation to have about how, like, the stories we tell ourselves and who we think we are, and people, you know, will feel so kind of certain that they know who their parents are, everybody thinks that they're certain about who their parents are. Nobody expects to get that kind of result, you know, and yet, you know, one in 20 people are getting that kind of result. Rahaf Farawi Interesting. Okay, so the stuff you just mentioned, and the data, is this information that you already knew going into the piece? Or was it stuff that you started to look into and explore while while writing the piece? Emma Gilchrist Parts of it, I knew. Like in terms of like, the biological rights and like history of like adoption rights and donor conception and stuff like that. But in terms of like, the prevalence, and just like the increase in the number of DNA tests that people are doing, like people are just giving DNA tests to their family members for Christmas, like, it's like a fun, gift, you know, and, you know, the idea that they can reveal these family secrets. I definitely, I discovered a lot of that after my own discovery. And I read a couple of books on the subject, actually, that were really informative. So yeah, I had read those before I kind of dove into writing my own story. Rahaf Farawi Was it challenging, deciding what you wanted to include in the piece? And sort of balancing all that with your own personal story? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, it was because there is so much and there's so many different kind of avenues that story could have gone down, like it could have gone really down like the adoption rights, you know, place it could have gone really into like, racial and ethnic identities. But ultimately, it needed to, you know, stay, I think it was about 7,000 words in the end. So I comforted myself by creating like, pretty much like the outline of a book in the process. And, and like, recognizing, like, each of these topics, could be its own chapter, whether I ever actually write the book or not. But it's like, the one story didn't need to be everything it needed to kind of navigate its way through my own personal story. You know, you can only go to a certain depth to include everything that you have to include. Rahaf Farawi Yeah, definitely. Also, considering that you don't typically write long form personal narratives, did you approach this piece differently? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, I think what was kind of, I mean, I love like doing this kind of writing. I haven't really done it for publication a lot before. But I mean, a lot of it was pulled from like my journals and personal observations. And that stuff is really fun to write, I think. As opposed to maybe some more of like the environmental reporting work that I have done that it's just like, it's very, like fact-based. It's all based on interviews. It's all pulled from reports. There's less like license to really like flex your writing muscle, you know? So yeah, when I wrote this story, like, I basically got out, like, all of my journals, and my adoption records, and my family tree, like from my original birthdad, and I pulled out like previous iterations, like I'd written little parts of the story before. And so it was like a big mishmash of all of those things. Rahaf Farawi Interesting. And since you mentioned that you had like little parts of the story already written before, at what point did you start reaching out to like expert sources? Did that come after writing your personal story? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, mostly. Like I had, I had most of the like, personal bits. Not all of it. But like some of the scenes and stuff like that, I would try to write them like as soon as possible before I would forget them. And then it all happened really fast, though, in terms of like actually pulling it together, I went to like a cabin in the woods for a week. And I wrote the story in that week, including most of the expert interviews. So it was kind of like simultaneous, and the expert interviews really helped me, it really helped me interpret my own experience. And it helped me write my own kind of takeaways, and thoughts as well. Rahaf Farawi Wow, a cabin in the woods. And in one week, that is super impressive. So I also wanted to talk a little bit about the structure. So that opening scene was just wow, like, I was reading it, and my heart was beating so fast. And you ended the piece by finishing off that opening scene. Could you talk a little bit about your decision to open and close the piece that way? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, for sure. So I always knew I wanted to open that scene. And I wrote that scene, like first. So that part was always really clear that I wanted this little vignette of just this, like really jarring, sad, you know, tough moment. And then I think it was actually my editor who really encouraged me to come back to that, at the end of the piece, and I wasn't exactly sure where to place that part. But she really wanted it to come back to that near the end. And I think that that ended up working out really nicely and coming to, because in many ways, it's like, the story isn't really about my original birthdad, but he was probably like, the most negatively impacted by the whole thing. And I think it was really nice to come back to that. And actually some of the conversation that is in the piece, like near the end, happened, like, near the end of the editing process, like it happened while I was writing the story, like when I went for a lunch with him. And he when he said like, “In my heart of hearts, you're my daughter.” But that he knew what I was going to say that day in the diner. And he said, “It was just a look in your eyes.” And I said, “Father's intuition” that that like happened, I think in like the January. So it was like, it was almost like a late addition to the piece. And I'm just so glad that that scene happened. Rahaf Farawi That's hilarious. Actually, since you bring up your original birthdad, I'm curious, was that challenging to kind of publish a piece that also brings up all these close people to you? Like, were you ever hesitant to share this publicly? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, I was for sure. Like, I think there was something. So there's something about being adopted in general, where you're always worried about all of your parents and protecting all the people in their feelings and, it's like, you know, of all the people involved, like, I'm the one who never made the choice to get involved in an adoption scenario, right. And I think with this next chapter that happened in the DNA test and finding out that I'd had the wrong biological father, I just felt really empowered to like claim my own story and to not worry so much about you know, everybody else's perspectives. But I was definitely like pretty nervous when it came out. And when I, you know, shared it. You know, personally, I kind of did, I would joke that I did like a stakeholder consultation where I like shared it personally with like each of the parents and like anxiously awaited their feedback. And including, like my adoptive parents, because, you know, it implicates them a little bit too. And it touches a bit on like, how adoption was hard for me. And I was probably most anxious about sharing that even though to the reader, maybe that didn't seem like the most notable thing in the story. But it was like, yeah, it was quite anxiety inducing. I was also really worried about how it would feel for my original birthdad. But he ended up loving it, I think, in part because one of the things that people told me about the pieces like my love for him, and like our relationship really came through strongly. Rahaf Farawi Yeah, it really did. So overall, it was a positive reaction. Emma Gilchrist Yeah. It was pretty, it was pretty positive. Like, there were definitely, you know, some kind of tricky conversations. But I always just say like that all of my parents are still talking to me. And I have relationships with all of them. So and the piece is actually about to be published, a shorter version is about to be published in Reader's Digest this spring. So it all just got re-fact-checked yet again, and it still stands. Rahaf Farawi I'm glad I'm glad. So how was the whole fact-checking process? Especially with like, reaching out to all your parents and your journal entries? What was that like? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, it was so interesting. I hadn't been through a lot of like, magazine fact-checking processes before, but I mean, I've been through a few. And this is just, like, so intense when the like, you know, the big sources in my story are they’re people, they're my parents. And they're, I'm relaying conversations, private conversations, basically, that I had with my parents, like conversations I had with my birthmom while we're hiking and, and stuff like that. And so when I kind of learned that the fact-checker was going to call all of them, it definitely made me feel a bit nervous, because part of what the story is about is like the elusive nature of truth, and how many people can have different recollections of the same, same event, right? And it's all about an event that happened 37 years ago, that seemed inconsequential at the time. Right, my conception. It's really all about how was I conceived? And how did we get the story wrong, you know? And people have different memories of that, or a lack of memory about that. And at the same time, it's like, yeah, I mean, do you remember every word you said, you know, on a hike with your friend six months ago? Like, probably not? So yeah, it made me nervous. And it I think, especially like, for my original birthdad, he doesn't like really, you know, live in a world where he's like, getting called up to be interviewed, or fact-checked all the time. And it was like a bit alarming for him. Especially like, the story mentions that he, you know, had a troubled past and like, I think it made him anxious to bring some of that stuff up. So yeah, I had to like kind of like, warn all my parents that they were gonna get fact-checked. And then like, you know, check in with them after and make sure they were okay. Rahaf Farawi I love that. Yeah, in the piece you also brought up the first email your biological mom had sent you? Do you still have that email? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, I do. I still have that email, the first email she sent me. They didn't actually ask to see that. I think they must have asked her like, if that sounded about right, for what the first email was. But yeah, I kept all those like early emails. And then I pulled from my journals and stuff. And I had all of these documents about like, my original birthdad's family tree, because he's Métis. And we were like, in the process of like, applying, you know, for Métis citizenship. And so I had all of all of that stuff. And like, I've been looking into that for 15 years. It's like, still to this day when I hear somebody, like mention our last name. I'm like, “Oh, yeah, that's my family,” and then I'm like, “Oh, wait, wait a second.” But in a way, they are still my family because like, what is family? If it's not like, family is mostly who we think it to be is I think part of what the story is, but it's like, you know, my parents, the people who I call my parents are the people who raised me and I have no biological connection to and then my original birthdad, you know, I thought he I thought he was my birthdad for 15 years and I studied that family history for 15 years. And I think the fact that he isn't actually my biological dad doesn't make him not a father figure to me. You know, he is still a father figure. Rahaf Farawi Yeah, for sure. I have another structure question. So when you brought up the Facebook messages from your biological father, you structured it in a way that was like, I was basically reading the conversation off your Facebook. Could you talk a little bit about your decision to structure it that way? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, I mean, that section was just like, kind of such a gift. Because our messages were seriously, like, it took I think I wrote like, it took us like 13 minutes or something to like, crack this decade's old mystery. And I think, writing it the way that I did, it's like, I think it makes the reader feel like they're receiving the messages. And the it's like, “Oh my, oh my God. Like, what?” And it's like, it's kind of the staccato approach. But that's literally how it was, like, I like but send them that. And then I like went back to like working. I was literally sitting in my office working that day. And then I'd like open the window again. And I was like, you know, “Oh, whoa,” and it just so quickly unraveled. And it's like, the reality is, I'd had a few different conversations like that over the years, and like, they normally don't go anywhere, you know, it's like, “Do you know this person? Do you know that person?” or like, you send somebody a message on Ancestry or 23andMe, and you never hear from them. And like the cousin that I had reached out to, like, it had taken us like over, it had taken over a year to get a response from him. But then when this when this happened, it's just like, all the pieces started to fall into place. And like, you know, the fact that he even wrote, like, “Oh my God, my heart is racing.” It is a pretty dramatic moment. Yeah, Rahaf Farawi It really was. And I loved reading that part of the piece, because I felt like with every line, I was just awaiting the next Facebook message. So yeah, it was just structured so perfectly. I have another sort of a personal question. Did you come to any conclusions about the whole nature versus nurture debate? I know you touched a little bit on that in your piece. Emma Gilchrist Yeah, it's such a good question. I mean, I am like, I'm continually on the on this search for the answer to that question. I do think that, I do think that nature plays a really big role. But I also think that nurture plays a really big role. And I can see all of my parents reflected in me. I'm still figuring that out. And I think something that I got into in the story a little bit is like, finding out at age 35, that you aren't who you thought you were, is actually like quite a traumatic experience. And it's a huge loss. And I experienced, like, a lot of grief over that and sort of like a disenfranchised grief, right? Like, nobody really recognizes that you've experienced a huge loss. It's just kind of like a fun party story. But it's actually I've experienced a few significant losses in my life now. And I would have to say that that was like one of the biggest one, like the amount that like, that can just send your head spinning to think that you haven't known. You know, like, who you were or where you came from. So I obviously think nature is like, very important. And I think we all should have a right to that information. And it felt really like dehumanizing to not have that information for so long. Rahaf Farawi Wow, I love that answer. And on this topic, I was kind of curious, how did you manage to find so many people with similar stories to your own? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, so they kind of came out of the woodwork. And that's one area where I feel like I could have included so much more of other people's stories, but there wasn't room in this. But yeah, I literally, like just, you know, I was talking about what happened to me to everybody. And then a friend would be like, “Oh, well, that happened to my friend too. “And then, like, I like found out that like a counselor that I saw, it had happened to her and then I found out, yeah, like another friend, a friend of a friend. And I spoke to all of those people. So it was like, we became like, kind of like a weird support group or something. And then you'll see some of the more dramatic stories in the news sometimes as well. So I kind of they just landed with me. I find like when you start talking about these things, you often like, “Oh, there's lots of people actually.” Rahaf Farawi Interesting. Yeah. Also, could you talk a little bit about the editing process for this piece and how that was like? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, so the editing process was really great, and also really intense. My editor was Madi Haslam over at Maisonneuve. And yeah, it was like the most intense editing process I've ever been through. She really pushed me to like, build out certain sections and explore certain sections more. She pushed me to like the limits of like my memory of like what had happened in certain, certain moments. But I think like, ultimately, yeah, it made the piece better. And like, I wouldn't say the piece changed like super drastically from the editing process, but it changed in some like small and significant ways. And it's just such a, such a pleasure to work with a great editor, and she was a really great editor. Rahaf Farawi So did you interview or speak to any of your parents for the peace? Like at one point you wrote, your mom's scribbled the details of the call? And it was kind of something similar that you did. Is this a story that you kind of knew growing up? Or is that something you went back to kind of figure out? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, that was a story that I knew growing up. And I also literally have the piece of paper that he scribbled the notes on. Rahaf Farawi Oh, actually? Emma Gilchrist Yeah. And so I was like, looking back at that, and I think I actually mentioned like what she wrote down, that she wrote, like, “Girl, September 30, born at noon, red face, plump, healthy.” And so yeah, I like literally, like pull that out. And I mean, it's so interesting, you know, you can be sitting on all those papers, and like, they don't really seem that interesting. But they, when you really look at them, and especially when it's somebody's handwriting, and it's like this creased up piece of paper that's been folded away for 35 years. They're kind of gold, right? And it was actually my editor, I'm glad you bring this up, because it was actually my editor who pointed out that I did the same thing. And so it was her who drew that connection that I had also scribbled the details down on the piece of paper. If only my handwriting was as nice as my mom’s. Rahaf Farawi Do you have them somewhere safe? Or are they like, framed up? Emma Gilchrist I have them somewhere like safe-ish. I should probably put them like in a vault somewhere. They're just like in a special folder. Rahaf Farawi I love that. Okay, well considering, like I mentioned, this is your first long form personal feature. I'm curious, would you do it again? Emma Gilchrist Yes, I would. And I'm hoping to very soon. I'm kind of like, it's like running joke with my friends right now that I'm like, well, thank goodness life keeps serving me up these like bizarre personal tragedies, because that'll be the subject of my next article. And so yeah, I'm hoping to do something similar again, that'll like blend dramatic personal narrative with reporting and like, draw it to like, you know, increasing social phenomenon. And I'm just so excited to do that. I just, I honestly, I've worked in journalism for like, my whole life. So over 15 years, and there's probably been nothing more satisfying than publishing this piece in Maisonneuve. And the response that I got was like, out of this world, I literally, like, posted about it one night and like, woke up the next morning, and I had heard from like every person I had ever known in my entire life, it felt like I had like, hundreds of messages. And it was just so beautiful. And I think it speaks to the power of like, personal narratives, right? Like people really, really connect to that. And when you show your vulnerability, it helps you connect to other people. And it's kind of amazing how it makes you feel less alone, right? I had so many people reach out about their adoption stories, or their story of finding out that their dad wasn't who they who they thought it was, or that they had just discovered a new sibling through a DNA test. And it was, it was really, really cool. Rahaf Farawi Okay, before we end off, I have a more broad career question. So you are the co founder of the norwall. So could you tell us a little bit about what sparked your interest in reporting on environmental issues? Emma Gilchrist Yeah, it's kind of a bit of a long and winding tale. But I grew up in northern Alberta in oil and gas town. And I think like part of what we're trying to do at The Narwhal is to report on environmental issues, but in like a really complicated, complex way that includes the voices of people who work in the natural resource industries and, you know, allows for the fact that like an energy transition is quite complicated and it involves a lot of loss for certain people. As well as it being completely necessary based on the science. So being from where I'm from is definitely part of that. And then also I spent like some of the beginning of my career in England and there was just so much cool environmental journalism going on there at that time. And then when I came back to Canada, there wasn't really any. So that's how I started doing it as just like I saw this void in Canada. And I was working at the Calgary Herald at the time and I started writing this like weekly guide called the Green Guide on just like how to choose the fuel efficient vehicle and how to make your home more energy efficient and answering people's questions. And that was super fun. So that's that's how I got started. And then it got like, it was also deep and somewhat for sure it kind of it kind of overlaps with my story and Maisonneuve because I my original birth dad was Indigenous and so I was kind of quietly holding that identity to and feeling very much like, like Indigenous rights are something really important and something that I wanted to write about and work on. And that has been a big part of like The Narwhal’s Foundation as well. Rahaf Farawi Okay. Amazing! Well thank you so much Emma for being on the podcast. And I look forward to more crying with your future pieces. Emma Gilchrist Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. This has been a really fun conversation. Rahaf Farawi And that’s the end of this week’s episode. Pull Quote’s is published by the Review of Journalism X University. Our show hosts are Gabe Oatley and me, Rahaf Farawi. Our podcast team also includes Andrew Oliphant and Annika Forman. Technical and audio support is provided by Angela Glover and web support by Lindsay Hannah. Our executive producer is Sonya Fattah, and the music is by Harrison Amer. Join us in about 10 days for the next episode.